Comments on: Programmers: The Top Ten Things Management Hates About Agile http://blog.coryfoy.com/2009/09/programmers-the-top-ten-things-management-hates-about-agile/ It's all about delivering Thu, 09 Feb 2012 07:42:54 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Marc bledsoe http://blog.coryfoy.com/2009/09/programmers-the-top-ten-things-management-hates-about-agile/comment-page-1/#comment-895 Marc bledsoe Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:53:22 +0000 http://blog.cornetdesign.com/?p=536#comment-895 Cory, great post! I have bookmarked your site and will be sharing these gems with my team. I think Mike makes a really good point. Car repair is much more complicated than you know. Beer buying isn't. (I like the analogy myself) Agile methodologies allow for developers and customers/product owners agree on the short term/easy changes to develop first and if you want the head gasket replaced, it is going to cost you and take longer than you expect. The other point is: you really don't know what is wrong with your car when you take it in. You trust that the mechanic is telling the truth and really is only concerned about you driving a safe car. My question is: why don't we trust developers similarly? Cory, great post! I have bookmarked your site and will be sharing these gems with my team.

I think Mike makes a really good point.

Car repair is much more complicated than you know. Beer buying isn’t. (I like the analogy myself)

Agile methodologies allow for developers and customers/product owners agree on the short term/easy changes to develop first and if you want the head gasket replaced, it is going to cost you and take longer than you expect.

The other point is: you really don’t know what is wrong with your car when you take it in. You trust that the mechanic is telling the truth and really is only concerned about you driving a safe car. My question is: why don’t we trust developers similarly?

]]> By: Mike Dietz http://blog.coryfoy.com/2009/09/programmers-the-top-ten-things-management-hates-about-agile/comment-page-1/#comment-875 Mike Dietz Wed, 11 Nov 2009 19:35:37 +0000 http://blog.cornetdesign.com/?p=536#comment-875 Fair disclosure: I have only read about, and been to seminars on Agile and Scrum, never done it. One place I worked tried to do Agile light LOL. Have you ever taken your car in to be fixed, the repair shop says: “we will call you by noon to tell you what it needs?” They call, give you the diagnosis, usually worse than you expected, and more expensive. You agree, show up at 5 to pick it up, and find out either: they are not done or it will cost more. Worse is when they give you the car back and it still is not right. Compare that purchasing experience to going to the store and buying a six pack of beer. The worst thing is the added tax, or if under age show ID. And of course the beer might be a little on the old side, as if you would notice. Obviously the beer buying experience is a better one. IMHO management thinks it is getting the beer buying experience with traditional development and that Agile is closer to the car repair experience. Key word here is THINKS. The hurdle to acceptance is to realize provide more accurate analogy for what the current development is like. Fair disclosure: I have only read about, and been to seminars on Agile and Scrum, never done it. One place I worked tried to do Agile light LOL.
Have you ever taken your car in to be fixed, the repair shop says: “we will call you by noon to tell you what it needs?” They call, give you the diagnosis, usually worse than you expected, and more expensive. You agree, show up at 5 to pick it up, and find out either: they are not done or it will cost more. Worse is when they give you the car back and it still is not right.
Compare that purchasing experience to going to the store and buying a six pack of beer. The worst thing is the added tax, or if under age show ID. And of course the beer might be a little on the old side, as if you would notice.
Obviously the beer buying experience is a better one. IMHO management thinks it is getting the beer buying experience with traditional development and that Agile is closer to the car repair experience. Key word here is THINKS. The hurdle to acceptance is to realize provide more accurate analogy for what the current development is like.

]]> By: Kevin Wolf http://blog.coryfoy.com/2009/09/programmers-the-top-ten-things-management-hates-about-agile/comment-page-1/#comment-841 Kevin Wolf Fri, 25 Sep 2009 11:58:14 +0000 http://blog.cornetdesign.com/?p=536#comment-841 I might offer up one more point. It seems like lot of the buzz I read/hear is coming from people implement-ing (read -ing not -ed) agile. What I'm hearing from this "buzz" is that people that may not agree with some aspects of agile are doing things are wrong. This includes some very successful pioneers in our industry *cough* @spolsky *cough*. When I hear someone with somewhat limited experience that is implement-ing agile stating that they assume they know more about software development then people with a successful track record, a little red flag goes up about the whole process. My point is not that there isn't any validity to agile. IMHO the best process is one put in place that takes into account the context (leadership, team skill/experience, type of project, etc...). Statements like "When should I test" "All the f**king time" do a discredit to value that agile brings and raise red flags. my two cents I might offer up one more point. It seems like lot of the buzz I read/hear is coming from people implement-ing (read -ing not -ed) agile. What I’m hearing from this “buzz” is that people that may not agree with some aspects of agile are doing things are wrong. This includes some very successful pioneers in our industry *cough* @spolsky *cough*.

When I hear someone with somewhat limited experience that is implement-ing agile stating that they assume they know more about software development then people with a successful track record, a little red flag goes up about the whole process.

My point is not that there isn’t any validity to agile. IMHO the best process is one put in place that takes into account the context (leadership, team skill/experience, type of project, etc…). Statements like “When should I test” “All the f**king time” do a discredit to value that agile brings and raise red flags.

my two cents

]]> By: Damon Poole http://blog.coryfoy.com/2009/09/programmers-the-top-ten-things-management-hates-about-agile/comment-page-1/#comment-840 Damon Poole Thu, 24 Sep 2009 06:47:15 +0000 http://blog.cornetdesign.com/?p=536#comment-840 Cory, That was a riot! Thanks for the entertainment. Damon Cory,

That was a riot! Thanks for the entertainment.

Damon

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